Planning and zoning commission meeting in Roll Call please Castro here.
Near here right Buckley your aether ten here we have
a. Next item is approval the agenda any
additions or collusions approval the
minutes
there being none will take
a motion as amended so much so move by Castro second by right on favor say aye aye
aye aye all post same sign says in comments this is
a time for comments do or say I'm sorry citizens to make comments on anything not
on the agenda I am opening the floor to anyone however I will note there are no
citizens here except for the commissioners and staff to see so I will take
approval of the November thirtieth two thousand and sixteen meeting minutes
any corrections additions if not all to commotion
so much so moved by right second second by Castro all in favor say aye aye I'll
post them sign and then the December fourteen minutes of the meeting.
Any additions deletions corrections and if not I'll take motion so much so move by
Castro second second by right all in favor say aye. All
Post same sign there is no old business so we move to new business.
And before we get started the C.
Mean I would like to welcome
a new commissioner to our table and could you tell us just
a little bit about yourself that I work for you can manage W L B
K W S Q R Radio spent forty four years in radio Firstly in news reporting
and the last thirty in management sales. Have been involved on
a lot of committees both. More on the volunteer side
business associations and developments and events and then planning and permitting
and that type of thing and I serve also on the local emergency planning committee
I'm looking forward to getting involved more and to go wonderful women and we're
glad to have you on the commission won't you so I will open up the public carry on
a text amendment to our seven point one four design requirements for new
residential construction of the unified development ordinance. Could we get
a report from the staff before we get started Yes but even commission.
As you mentioned this is AMENDMENT TO article and are you do you know regarding
design requirements for new residential construction well background the mayor and
the council have been working for the past six months to year look at the various
boards in committees in the city. Trying to consolidate duties avoid duplication
make them more efficient one of the committees looking at what that that's being
looked at is
a design review committee their duties are covered in the municipal code and they
are basically tasked with reviewing all new homes in the city how are they
haven't met in over seven years due to
a couple circumstances which are going to so the direction from the mayor is to.
Delete or remove the design view committee from the code take their duties and put
them in the authority under that landmark commission or into the Community
Development Department in terms of review and I'll kind of go through. How those
are going to be. And transferred the current regulations and you have the marked up
Exhibit one in your packet there showing Article seven point one four But it talks
about the design. Review Committee in the review of new residential construction
and applies to all new homes in the city and in terms of the new subdivision.
Approved after one thousand nine hundred only applies to new homes that are in
subdivisions that are beyond ninety percent built out so. All the subdivisions that
we have that were approved after one thousand nine hundred either completed or the
ones that aren't are not at the ninety percent yet so those new homes until they
reach that mark are not being approved by the design review committee. And also
any home that is in the one of the two historic districts in the city or designate
a local landmark goes through the Landmark Commission first for
a recommendation then on to the design review committee but as I noted this
committee has met over seven years hasn't had
a new home the meets the criteria where plies so and I think the membership all of
them have been moved to other committees. The remaining members have been moved
over to other committees in the city so that's the direction so we need to amend
the you do yo to accommodate that and then also transfer the duties that they had
to the landmark commission or community development department so the review
of the current review standard in the you do yo here.
Well it's first of all go over what duties are going to be transferred or how they
are so any home in the historic district or local landmark will go to Landmark
Commission for final determination. If they meet their criteria and the criteria is
explained in Appendix seven
a right behind the article there are seven in the code it's the design guidelines
a checklist one clue to copy. It's a series of five guidelines and it's
a scoring system and it's
a the applicant has to meet in the applicant scores the we made it changes the
staff the scores and then then we have the D R C in there before so we're changing
that to keep the applicant the commune development director or designee and then
the landmark commission so depending on where the house is will dictate who gets to
review it but there's scores that are done for those five guidelines and they must
meet again to seventy five percent or higher of the maximum number of points in
order to be approved for them so there's no change in here in terms of the scoring
or anything it's just who what body or the commune development director who gets to
review it that's the change that but all the scoring remains the same.
So if the home is not in historic district or Landmark but is somewhere else in the
city and if it's in
a subdivision that's gone be on the ninety percent build out whenever that comes up
that new home the application for that will come to the commune development
director. And they'll go through the process of the scoring. And make
a decision if that should be approved or not in all these cases either Landmark
Commission or the community Elma director doesn't need if there's
a denial that the peel of the applicants can still appeal to the city council which
is currently in the language are not changing that so if there's
a denial they can still go to the council and appeal that to them in the eye of the
final decision.
And just a note once the commission never
a sample motion at the end of the staff report. Once
a commission make sure recommendation if you for that onto the council world
prepare ordnances deleting a chapter forty eight which is in the code which is
a design review committee well may also make amendments to Chapter forty four which
is landmark commission to cover their new duties and also the amendment to the do
you know which we're discussing tonight and have that one ordinance that would be
approved at one time they all kind of affected So our recommendation is to approve
this changes are in line with the direction from the mayor and council regarding
this the design review committee really got their duties handled elsewhere so the
the recommendations basically sample
a motion that if you agree with you can pretty much go off of that motion of the
back if you wish to thank you. Because this is
a public area one to have to state if there's anyone in the public that would like
to comment we would welcome their comments however I do note again we do not have
anyone from the public here this evening so I will open this up to the
commissioners for any questions or comments and I'd like to start actually with
a question so that this is more of just
a curiosity question because I really don't know much about the landmark commission
. Do they have
a regular meeting schedule or are they similar to how we are utilized
where you know there's like they see what the applicants are in the name the name
me there is. If their meeting schedule isn't very regular Will this possibly
change the reading schedule or how how would that process kind of work the landmark
commission is an ad hoc committee for the city and therefore they don't have
a regularly scheduled meeting they meet as needed or on call so if we were to
receive an application that required their review and recommendation we would
schedule
a meeting and follow the Open Meetings Act requirements and have that meeting
review that item at that point thank you but also just
no sorry Chairman of the you know the recommendation if you could add on there I do
you know exhibit one which has all the marked up changes but also if you can add in
the motion appendix seven A which has the change in the design guidelines have the
committee development director or Landmark commissions I'm sure thank you thank you
so did you all catch that whoever makes the motion make sure you include appendix
seven and that's part of the items be revised.
I have
a question. So it was not entirely clear to me. I'm sorry let me go
a different way. As I read the The New. Suggested changes
to exhibit one one of the things that becomes difficult for me to understand is
what is the role of the landmark commission versus the role of the community
development director and in particular. I don't know if I'm misunderstanding or
misreading the document but I feel like those two are. Written here in an
interchangeable manner in other words if I guess us an example of if there were
some requests for
a revision what this sides what criterion the size allows us to the side where
there is going to go to the lamb or commission first or and or make
a decision there versus
a community that development director. Where who could make
a decision as well I mean would what is the criteria hands where the home is if the
home submitted for a new home for
a building permit application is in and if that is located in the designated one of
the two historic districts in the city or doesn't
a local landmark which are defined in the Landmark Commission chapter that
application will go to the Landmark Commission for determination and will not go to
the community development director and we're going to claim our commission they'll
make a decision on that if it's outside the story district or it's not
a local landmark and it's not
a subdivision if it's past the ninety percent build up that will come to the
community but for deter it in that case alum
a commission would never see that right but to have to go to one of the other OK
and not go to both thank you and thank you.
And answer with respect to Appendix A seven eight there are no changes there I'm
sorry I misunderstood Yeah sorry the they weren't marked up the changes are in the
columns or they were says commute development director and as
a name that was initially staff and then where it's landmark commissioning used to
be or currently the D R C L view committee
a site is going to be removed and then he may develop director doesn't need to be
had it so that's two changes to those two columns nothing else change in the rest
of the document so this this document already hast those changes I understand now
critical their proposed changes they were marked up they were saying I proposed
changes right OK sorry thank you they weren't marked up like to exhibit one correct
.
What was. Said about the addition of appendix seven
a motion is added to the say that on the end of the motion there the sample.
So there's nothing else I'd be happy to take
a motion. Right now to give it
a shot. Based on the submitted petition and testimony presented I move that the
planning and zoning commission recommend to the city council approval of Tex
amendments to Article seven point one four of the. To absorb the development review
committees duties into the Landmark Commission or the can develop in director or
designee as indicated in exhibit. One and Appendix seven
a. Motion has made a name by right
a second the motion second by Castro the discussion. There be none
all to call.
Castro yes crowd. Near Yes right
yes Buckley Yes your other can yes if you know him passing.
The next I don't you know I'm sorry gosh I'm sorry could you close the public
hearing oh I'm sorry thank you and so this closes the public hearing and forget
that part don't leave that open. So the next time for business is
a discussion of video gaming discussion. And with potential amendments to the
U.T. You know so I open the door to this yes thank you and this is
a discussion item so there's not
a public airing no official motion we're looking at from the commission just some
comments direction and I'll go through the memo and give some good some background
and kind of focus on what we're looking for for feedback from the commission. The
state passed
a video gaming Act in two thousand and nine set up restrictions regarding video
gaming throughout the state loud cities to opt in or out to the city Dekalb decided
to. Allow those in the city at that time say law allows only up to five
terminals per location. That's throughout the state and basically three types
of locations retail stache MN truckstops and veteran and fraternal establishments.
And I believe all those would have to sell but you're right liquor sales have to be
associated with those. So the city did
a lot discussion back then allowed to use in the city and as of November
this past November there were eighteen video gaming establishments with
a total of seventy six terminals throughout the city. So in the last few years the
city has seen that quite
a few large increase in those particular you've ones that. Ridgeley was set up
where the city was interested in lowering these and. At the request
a lot of the. Fraternal organizations or some of the restaurants to allow these as
do help with this to get some additional revenue or income for that particular
stamp of Schmidt they become excessive read to the principle you see the
restaurants are. Her for turning organization and where the ordinance was written
and we did seen
a lot recently and it's kind of been throughout the state to where we've seen
a video gaming establishment that are almost would say that they're become the
principal use on the site
a lot of the come in through have served food and would have to serve liquor but
terms of the operation it's pretty much focused on the video gaming really rely
a lot of the revenues through that and we've seen a lot of those recently
a lot of Maher trying to get a couple examples the Suzy's and he's
a lot of March chains. Opening up
a lot of different locations where they do offer food limited menu items alcohol
and the five video game machines and usually taken up but have
a smaller tenets bases are not in free standing buildings that usually fifteen
under square foot twelve hundred square foot ten it's bases in multi ten
a commercial buildings was where they typically like to locate in higher commercial
higher you know traffic areas throughout the city. The council had
a couple of the lengthy discussions last summer. John presented
a couple memos to them which included in your packet and the Commission or the
council with those concerns wanted to take
a look time to study the issue come up with some perhaps regulations that would
deal with these uses are coming in videogaming would seem to be the principal use
operating there so they did approve in September
a six month moratorium on any additional video gaming licenses into the city
expires on March thirteenth there was time to allow the city to do
a study analysis. But also involve you know review by the planning and zoning
commission on
a few items related to Xining issues which we wanted to discuss. So this would be
discussion to look for direction and the plan would be to from the direction come
back. Read create some amendments publish
a notice in the newspaper and come back on February fifteenth for
a hearing public hearing in front of the commission and your meeting on the
fifteenth of February and get or hopefully recommendation of the commission that
will go on to the council for review and hopefully passage looking for by the time
the the moratorium expires so we'd have the regulations in place. It's
a moratorium expires kind of three focused areas I guess in terms of the amendments
to the year Dio One is creating a new zone
a classification definition for video gaming right now we don't have video gaming
listed as
a permitted or special use and there in the past they've been determined I guess
under the bar tavern use as a principle use in a bar and Tavern is permitted in
a couple districts the central C.B.D.
District and their general commercial districts and their special use are limited
commercial So that's the term that's been used that's
a list in the ordinance for it's gone under the video gaming operation.
Unless I guess they were part of the for Turner organization to go under that
particular use. So we like to create a new different
a definition for video gaming we don't have the specific language but will come up
with something that would define that and we also may need to tweak or modify
a little bit the definitions for the principal use in excess are used to make sure
that these types of operations where the video gaming appears to be the principal
operation there. Is defined and then they would become
a he they are permitted to use or especially use they won't be accessory to some
other operation so that's one thing will need to do the other is what zoning
district should this new video gaming definition be permitted or special use as I
noted the currently there under the bar there permit in the central business
district or the in the general commercial district and kind of looking at this.
From the Past discussions central business district we kind of feel that having
video gaming as
a permitted use words of principle yes and having it permitted probably
we probably would not want to continue that. I have it as
a special use instead of trying to protect the downtown in terms of retail
operations uses that we want to see down there this would prohibit current
restaurants like our Leary's which has video gaming or its accessory use to the
main operation from continuing to do that or future ones this would be or the video
gaming is
a principal use not having that and central business district or having it is
a special special use would probably be more appropriate but allowing it as
a permitted use again in the general commercial and then
a special use I guess continuing that in the limited commercial now for projects
there is on plan development with the plan development it would depend on that
particular ordinance. All the past ones won't have that language in there because
we haven't had that used before so any new ones would have to. Be dependent on what
the city would want to do that in that particular audience for that site or
permitted special use or not depending on the location so.
So in terms of where we'd want those that's kind of the direction permitted in the
general commercial. Special use in the limited commercial.
In the central business district probably either one of you especially use or not
even listed there is certainly an option even you know not especially use in the
central business district for naive and open that door is but we want to further I
think the recommendation is to limit those in the central business district.
Additional restrictions. From the discussions last summer there was
a. Few things brought out and there's some really good thorough discussion in
maps in the August seventeenth memo interview and chance to look through those
showing the location of all the video gaming throughout the city in the minds of
the principal uses seem to be congregated up on six more road in the main
commercial area there where a lot of men come in lately. I think there's a was
a lot of fifteen hundred foot area there was twenty three percent of all the video
gaming. Businesses were in that stretch so that's where the and I think all those
kind of came at the last year or two. So it's became evident that they're really
concentrating and focusing on one particular area so I think it's fair to limit
those and you can do that with like
a distance separation requirement. Adding restriction that they can't be located
within and this is
a facility itself and for example two hundred fifty feet from another video gaming
operation. If you want additional limitations you could do
a separation regarding the. The property line of where of the building where the
facility is at the building the property line that covers that building
a setback. On the property line for example like
a hundred feet so that would give make sure there's some separation between them
where you're not having
a strip center. You know made up of entirely these operations or you know quite
a few of them out there they take up and tire one but avoid it make
a little more separation between them. But still allow them in that most of here is
general commercial district or has
a plan developments and I'm so. So that's kind of the three areas
focused on are looking for direction is the definition. Where they should be
permitted or special use or not allowed and then any other restrictions regarding
distance between them or if there's any other. Recommendations you haven't any
other type of restrictions that may get the same result we're certainly open to
that so so again no motion officially any. Comments will take questions
either one of us so I definitely
have to say that this was very eye opening for me to read I know you know you know
that these are in the community but you don't really know where they are until you
see the map and you see and you know but I think the eye opening piece for me was
the ones that how they're classified whether an accessory or the the fact that
they're considering the bar or I had no clue so any of them that
are and this probably will go for us kind of with
thinking this through
a little bit any that are considered the liquor class is considered
a bar currently then do they have to I would assume that they would have to observe
Annie ordinances that bars would have to like I don't know what those ordinances
are at the top of my head but let's say they can't be school or whatever I'm just
justice for them to make an end up but trying to think of an example so today is
that what they have to. Go by is what that ordinance for what
a bar would have to go by currently yet they would have still have to make the
whatever classification of liquor licenses that operation has
a you would have to meet whatever there's
a distance to schools or whatever setbacks hours of operation and whatever there is
they have to meet that So do we need to kind of keep that in mind as we're thinking
through. Any of us that we may need to consider
adding that into the studio specific or is that that's when we'll handle that that
separation language and the requirements are handled in the liquor code OK So
anytime we get
a liquor license application the city distributes that to all of the departments to
review from there Barry various perspectives so that part of it gets reviewed as
part of the liquor license review I guess the only reason it might it would
need to be codify it in the code but the commission may want to understand where
some of those features are so that if we're creating some separations or
limitations that we're not overly burdening the system we're not overly regulating
it so that right it's not allowed anywhere for I am well it's kind of what I do so
we could we could have the map revised to show the location of any facilities
that that that the liquor code may reference as being
a location that you can't or you have restrictions in terms of the limits of the
location for
a liquor license and show where there's those are on the map so you have an idea.
So didn't you had also mentioned your demeanor really quick statement about them
being in the P.T.C.
What was that piece and I think you know reason I am asking is because I am sorry
to interrupt you the reason why I'm asking is because there is the one on Sycamore
road right now that is it appears it's in a P.V.C.
I think if it's in
a plane development commercial the ordinance if it magine if it listed bar as
a permitted use to come down I think they are we would categorize the video gaming
would be attached to that would be allowed there OK And so but I think moving
forward if we create
a video gaming operation that would be. Something we've looked at to determine if
that plan development do we want to have video gaming in there or not to respect
for use of. Prohibited or something you know like we do with cases where the list
of prohibited uses they are so I think the past any current ones. I think we've got
the bar term tavern pretty for quite a while so magine
a lot of May have that party in there as
a permitted use or special use but it would depend on that site where you become
one of the potential challenges I was thinking about this with the plan development
if it lists the specific uses in Atlas bars for example and somebody comes forward
with an application in that plan development if we adopt this new language that
defines videogaming as
a stand alone principle use that's not listed in those plan development agreements
so I think I'm thinking this forward and I guess my interpretation would be that
they would have to come back and amend that plan development in order to
accommodate that I don't know whether there's
a way for us to work with legal counsel to come up with language in the code now if
the choice of the commission was. You know if it's allowed in the underlying zoning
districts to supersede that restriction I'd have to ask our attorney about that but
. There are other plan development ordinances that were written that don't have
a specific. Use list uses listed within the ordinance so in those cases we do go to
the underlying zoning districts so if you know we can do
a little bit more work on that and then depending on what your thoughts are we. We
can maybe create some language that would allow for those as we do have
a lot of plan developments and.
So I I read this this document and the My first reaction is just for the sake
of an exercise and put it on the table it's actually to put my might libertarian
hat on and I'm not saying that I'm one where the other but I put my libertarian hat
on and I asked my question why are we regulating this why why don't we just let
this proliferate in whatever way for fashion of ones and let the market decide what
happens and of course there are arguments that are made here of why we're
interested in vien and that's of course that's not the libertarian head anymore
this that's also
a community making decisions on whether we want to how we want it and those
limitations what what are those limitations. As as I then entertain those first
few questions other questions come to mind in one of them is you know what what
would the conversation be we were talking about Pacman and misses back in the games
. In this conversation would probably be different in that sense would be having
some other conversation it wouldn't be necessarily this one we would in the cellar
be talking about attaching this limitations or making them condition condition in
them I'm sorry to to bars for example. So the analogy of course and it's no
accident that we start thinking about how those little license work in thinking
about that model. As
a way to start defining what the restrictions on this is going to be my suspicion
is that at the very existence of the conversation this started some months ago the
very fact that we have
a moratorium on this on this decisions in the we're having this discussion in the
once
a word are going to come up in the future is is because we want to put something
around this we want to make sure we give ourselves the time to think about this in
that context is seems clear to me that we're not going in the direction of do
nothing that option doesn't seem that is going to materialize you know in all of
this. And given that and that's my thought that we're not going to go in that
direction I guess the best thing we can do is precisely participate in in what
those limitations will be. I I know that I
said
a lot of things there that are more philosophical and anything else but I just wanted
to make sure that at least it is on the table and that we recognize that again this
is not about Miss back and this is about some of the type of video game in that
actually highlights the need and I know that you just brought it up in in this in
the introduction there is
a need to define what this video game is what this video game terminals are. And
again it's not a Mrs fact a machine is
a different type of video game terminal. Having said all that and hopefully getting
more definition on what this is I am looking forward to seen some more clear
definition of what this video game game terminals are going to be. I generally
speaking I am on board on the idea of attaching this video game regulations to for
example bars it will be nice I concur with the idea that it will be nice to to see
a map of where bars in the city of the Kalb are. In might not be
a bad idea to think about options where you if it is possible where you limit the
number of machines further so if I'm not mistaken you have
a limitation of five currently it might not be
a bad idea to limited lower if you have
a really high number of bars that might balance things out. So those are some of
the some of the things that occurred to me as I read this I realize I'm not saying
. Things that are hundred percent original Some of those things are already here
but I am if anything given my my first position my first reading on all this
since the state allows for five video terminals we can diminish that ability is my
understanding correct so we don't need five based on this. Up to
five I mean. By they can have up to five but I'm guessing
a local municipality can't limit to two that's going to say OK and just in case it
wasn't clear the state requirements only allow video gaming machines for people who
have liquor licenses so you can't just put them in
a retail store anywhere so I think that's you know that's kind of how it started
the way it did it started off as it's available to anybody who has
a liquor license Well at that point people didn't have a liquor license to have
a video gaming business because that didn't exist at the time so everybody came in
who had a liquor license and if they wanted
a way to raise money they they added between one and five machines it became pretty
successful very fast and the people out there evaluating this business model said
Hey all I have to do is get a liquor license from a community and I can open up
a shop now some communities. Liquor license provisions don't allow you to have just
a bar unless you have food so in those cases that communities have liquor licenses
like that these small standalone twelve hundred square foot video gaming
establishment weren't really
a problem because they don't want to come in and set up the kitchen and go through
all of the expense just to have video gaming machines so they started targeting the
communities that allowed for liquor licenses that don't have kitchen requirements
and that's where you know at the time it was coming in and all of
a sudden why do we have ten twelve fifteen requests for these all within
a really close. Location and that that's really why we got to where we were it
wasn't because you know we have
a lot of people on the council and in the community that believe very strongly in
the open market but this was one of those animals that didn't seem to be reacting
like a normal open market type of business so that's why we took
a POS. And I think that's the piece that has been very educational to me on this is
I had no idea the one I don't remember the name Susie's or Shelby's or something in
those checking center area by Target or by only would have had
a look I mean who knew right who knew you know and actually I probably half of
these I mean most of those businesses will admit to you they don't even need the
liquor license quite right they sell very little liquor in those looking you know
for legal reasons on the range but then the other piece of it too it was very eye
opening for me is the revenue stream here. Well you know here in our community that
we're Shockey I mean it's awesome but that was shocking to me that that number was
yeah I mean keep Are you referring to the numbers in the report yes those are those
are numbers are numbers spent So those are the money's being gambled those
aren't the revenues so there's money's being gambled so and I think there's been
a money grab Hill and that still it's still
a large number and yeah you know it not that it should play into your consideration
but I can I can give you an idea of what those numbers are because I know the
Council has asked for those as well and I think that's always kind of the elephant
in the room with these kinds of things is that
a community that and all of us all communities are experiencing that you don't know
what's happening in Springfield right now and you don't know how even if it's slow
the money starts to flow again that could take decades to get back up to the point
where it is and this is
a sure thing you know it's just like casinos you know people at first it want
casinos municipalities and huge debates about casinos but boy you start getting in
a couple million dollars
a year for road projects and things like that looks pretty attractive and. The
gambling establishments whether small or large they really you know like you said
the bar they look at license issue that that's
a no brainer for them that's not their focus and you know they put in
a little investment they're going to triple you know that
a lot of money going very easily and you know one of the first couple of days
that's gone before but I guess my concern and I have two men I've never been and we
have these things and I'm giving this background and giving what little I know
about them I'm assuming that. There's And there's not
a whole lot of interior investment in these properties when they they start to. And
they go into if I'm wrong have you think it depends on the. Actual establishment
Susie's is nice inside with it's right next to the radio station so we watched him
build it but they didn't do
a lot you're going to Shelby's and there's partitions and more architecture inside
so I think it just depends on the size of the chain that's operating in both places
I think this is her twelfth or thirteenth location in the state and Shelby's is
a chain along with Stella's supply chains are trying to make it very inviting to
you know women there's
a big dinner today where I think it's very very hard yeah people don't like to go
on the big casinos with all the noise something very inviting you know come in it
they're usually the back and not up front and you come in and there's tables and.
Yes little area where you know never drank or limited menu items so
a lot of them have the same kind of model almost in terms of way out I guess one of
my biggest my biggest concern. Is not the existence of these things but more that
some of those other issues that are brought up like location I really
a personally would not like to see political ration of these in the central
business district. Not only because not really so much as they use but really it's
you know they're limiting themselves to
a very small square footage. That really doesn't fit in most circumstances with the
flavor that you're trying to establish in the central business district
particularly an older one that is trying to recapture some of that that history and
I think you know that's what the Countess is attempting to do so I would have
a preference at these were not particularly as a principal use be allowed and
a central business district that being sad I would I would not I would have to
think about it you know whether or not and I don't know if you're suggesting to
even limitations or an accessory so-called accessory is so if it wasn't like an
existing bar or a bar that the Prince it was going to be a restaurant and
a bar that was going to be the principal use that we would still be looking
favorably upon them having the five term up to five terminals there yeah we don't
tend to change it if they are the accessories to still allow those like
a Leary's was an example and that would be fine I would say like that I would just
really have a you know I have real doubts about you know. Having that as
a principal use in
a central business district and as far as. Elsewhere in the community
you know I in
a commercial area. If you were along Sycamore all the time and you know when all
signs start to pop up and you start to see those little little businesses I mean
one of the first things and honestly one of the first things I thought and maybe
just given my background is oh my gosh are we going to have
a strip mall of nothing but these little video gaming places you know and then it's
that also would be kind of
a tragedy because that's that again is setting that's saying
a tone for that particular commercial area. You know I don't know spattered
throughout that honestly isn't
a huge concern of mine but if we get the if they become so lucrative and so you
know such
a valuable operation to the to these folks that they're going to go they're going
to cluster just like fast food restaurants and they're going to be there now
stacked up right beside each other so control over that is something that I would
like to personally I would like to. Kind of feel out and see what the possibilities
are there whether it's you know one you know so many persone an area or within so
many feet of each other are you know whatever that is that something I personally
like to see explored and good in talking with Shelby's people early on when they
first opened because they still owes
a lot of times they'll put Shelby's at one end and still is at the other end of the
strip mall because there are different schemes and different approaches and people
go to one if they didn't do well they'll go on down to the other or they did well
so the other going to go down here and who didn't do well there that is kind of
overkill if you know and it's what you know it's what Las Vegas was built on you
just start you know starting when in the strip and you go all the way the other
fire and I and it you know if they were beautiful and begun and you know that maybe
that would be something right now Africa cow maybe but but but that was that's what
would happen is that you you know you there we have to control that from have
coming past and that's again that would be
a concern. So with those concerns you know the.
There are the three on Sycamore road that are pending that are right there in the
same spot as. I believe that's part of probably mercury that
strip there are there certain so to speak so with those
repairs being in that same approximate area are those pending waiting
for the outcome of why what might happen with the you do you know for
a good question so these reports were prepared back before the moratorium was
issued so those were pending at the time the council was reviewing the first time
and have since gone on and been approved OK I think we have at least one of them
who's not actually been constructed yet they've run into some issues with that so
anything you see on here now should be assumed to be in existence or can legally
become into existence and. The only relevance to moving forward might be that if we
create
a separation restriction then these don't comply to some or all of these that are
too close to each other might become non-conforming that doesn't effect them now
because we have non-conforming rights that would allow them to continue to do that
as long as they meet the non-performing requirements but if they changed ownership
or burned down or something happened then they could lose that non-conforming right
unless that's an issue and you're wanting addressed that we could address that in
the code revisions as well OK so if there's if there is a desire to create
a new language that would not allow more than one in
a given continuous strip building or create some separation between the actual
business or the property lines of the business we would go through and identify
which ones would become non-conforming as
a result of that action so that you. As we have this
conversation one of the questions that I have in my mind and I'd throw it out there
for the sake of conversation is to do we have
a reference has anything like this happen in the past where we have this
proliferation of businesses where initial capital investment is for up at least
small and you could have
a rep the Lehigh turnaround of this stablish men and or can we build
a map of the city with some other kind of stylish when the say restaurants and we
going to find a glum aeration of restaurants and I'm using That's
a nice as an example where existing restaurants may not you know let's say that
a given restaurant is in the middle of Lincoln Highway in that particular owner's
likely you know kind of saturate in this area is there anything that the that the
city can do to prevent more restaurants in that spot and I'm doing this as an
exercise in trying to see whether there's a reference always does that much of
a different animal that that is kind of difficult to get our head around aside from
simply putting restrictions and that's it I mean what other potential uses to put
restrictions on or. So what is the obvious is there an obvious area out there where
we put restrictions on currently for video gaming that it's not video game just yet
because that's sure something I guess I don't think we have all the bars. And
you know I can. You know I can go through
a list of. Those uses you know that always come up that ordinances regulate in
different ways I can't think of any. Into Kalb certainly that talk about regulating
how close they are to each other I worked in another community. And it's the only
other thing that's similar to what you're talking about where they had
a proliferation of businesses that were catering to beauty supply stores and it
was on
a Roosevelt Road and they had the old downtown type buildings you know one or two
story buildings built up close to the road. A lot of vacancies in.
Places would come in pretty large here places and they have beauty supply and maybe
sell
a few chairs to people and every you know multiple ones in each block and more than
one in every block so in that particular case that community chose to implement
a minimum separation between those uses. That's the only thing I can think of but
it was unique to that to that particular community and I can't think of anything
like video gaming that's universally having this effect on many communities
throughout the state and different communities are dealing with that differently
either through the zoning or through their liquor codes but most people have the
same concern about how do we limit. How do we limit the ability of these
establishment friends taking up an entire strip center if it was vacant or on the
contrary you know we have a vacant lot what if somebody wanted to build
a brand new twenty thousand square foot facility and line up fifteen video gaming
establishment seven and have a big parking lot and you'd have
a little mini Vegas right there. And that would be
a whole different animal because it would be you know
a physical attacks and area that you have to worry about who's going there whatever
other policing issues usually go with this is just taking a quick look at the U.T.
Oh we do there is
a limitation on retail sale tobacco or for retail tobacco stores as
defined which is basically predominantly they're selling tobacco there is
a. Separation two hundred feet between the two between the retail tobacco
store another retail tobacco store so that's an example Yeah so there's
a lot of separation for distance to
a certain uses to other types of uses like residential medical cannabis adult uses
or separation to residential or that's quite of the problem there but just
a quick look there's tobacco stores is does have separation between those two uses
to that define that as
a principal use it this is retail tobacco stores as defined and it's those are
defined as thirty percent or more of its gross revenue from the sale to back.
So there really some time in the past to tell that
a number has been an issue and that's the best stores you know I think you're
probably
a long held crust I think you know I think. That is that is very useful to have the
president both in the previous example and from
a previous community and the in the cow because it I mean as long as we can
identify significant differences between for example tobacco and video gaming then
you can think about one of the other very similarly kind of establishes the
framework to think and eventually come up with ordinances to regulate it. And that
says again being
a new thing you know in my head in that sense I really don't see the significant
difference between one and the other I mean whatever regulation similar regulations
we have for debacle I don't see why retail tobacco sales I don't see why we cannot
put something similar for the case of me again terminals it might be interesting to
see if we can I mean is anybody familiar with one that might have come to that
before me recall any you might be interesting to see if there's an ordinance that
was created you know fifteen twenty years ago and what it backs in that it's
a killer case night and then they chose three hundred two hundred two hundred feet
so you know it might be something that we want to take
a look at and see why did they choose Why did they do it and why did they choose
two hundred feet it probably was a popular thing a certain time maybe next to
a liquor store or you know separate but but some are.
So if we were to consider putting. You know I found
a resort to speak she said that that the boundary generally is based on
the store the property lights correct. I've seen those kind of things defined both
ways either from the property line or from the extent of the store limits so you
could I'm going to go from the front door to the next front door you could you
could go to the property lines it's usually
a little easier to go to the property lines and believe me there will be some
really long language that suggests how that's measured because we get into that
with people because I'm going to strip mall but the strip center let's say out on
Bethany and and Sycamore road you know you've got story after story after story
there's no break in. Property right so you know the other the other way to do it
is not to use distances at all you could just say you can have or
a combination you can't have more than one or two or whatever you determine or if
ever percentage you can have more than ten percent of any one building can have.
Can be used for this use so we could define it if we kind of know what your end
game is we can take
a look and try to figure out the best way to achieve that either through distance
percentages building restrictions
I don't have any numbers in mind but I agree with you on the.
The downtown area and kind of keep it in that reined in
a little more I know we've as
a community you guys have have really worked hard to get businesses in the downtown
area. Even though that would be
a really great revenue source I think keeping that retail more of the
retail aspect of the downtown area seems to be
a lot more appealing to attract people into her community not that this wouldn't be
appealing to some people but I you know I agree with trained. Keep that reined in
that speak it makes me know you bring up the issue
of revenue which is something we never make our decisions based on by you're right
it's very. You know the there's the basic philosophy of how there are what why
do you tax something and then there is either you tax to get rid of something or
you tax to get some revenue stream to do the things the government needs to do and
this is a this is a situation where you tax in order to get rid of it in
a way you tax through the regulations we're not talking about money we're talking
about limitations on what you can do and that's actually what we're doing here
we're we're thinking about what what how can you tax it how can you regulated such
that you get no more than what you want and you know
it I don't think this is the case and here but But even even good complete read of
but I don't think that's to our case in particular we just want to put limits to it
what there was saying was was I think right on I think I think that's going to find
a good echo around the community if we had many inquiries from other establishments
during the moratorium that you might know of other standalone or either or
primarily the standalone So I think because that would be more of the issue the
only request that we got was for one that was over in the strip center next to Sean
Knox and some of you commissioners and I recall that that plan development
agreements restricted bars or liquor licenses so it wasn't so much I think
he had started talking to Derek about what would be required this is before all
this happened what would be required to amend that restriction so that he could do
the video game and then. He kind of went away for
a while was working on some other things and when he came back the moratorium was
in effect so I think he had hoped to try and move forward with that. And I believe
Derek cautioned him because my understanding is that was pretty controversial at
the time that project was approved and I remember even worse knocks getting
a worker license to leave was there were so it was
a big issue to some but other than that one I don't think I don't think we've had
any of their. And you know OK there was an
organisation
a fraternal organization that asked if they could move their facility and keep
their machines and they determine through legal legal I got involved and said No
you would not be able to during the mower moratorium to move your machines and your
machines are connected to that location. I'm just curious as
to are we reaching Are we nearing the saturation point from the business is
perspective and how much of an issue will it be down the road I'm just curious
because there are so many it's like at some point does the the industry itself
decide there's enough Yeah I wish I knew I was I could say how many or if there
were any people that stopped calling us because they knew more as far as you know I
don't know that to be the fact I do know that in
a few months that when I first got here you know they said they just started
printing men and Alice like what's happening and that's why we had the really quick
. Salvation of these memos and the council got involved and they said please do
some more research and that's when the moratorium came about is because we felt
like if we didn't do something that little section of Amar road was going to
continue to have many more applications well and the other thing is we're talking
about Dekalb you go across into Sycamore which is still in that same stretch and
there's one or two there already direction which is not in ours but it's still
within a close distance right that's a good point it's
a sycamore considering anything similar to that I was going to ask the same thing
we can find out now that would be in the interesting our next report and may be.
You know that was Sycamore bring to
a close may be what about even like Shell or maple park
we will do
a little investigating and bring that to our report the next time we cynical but my
guess would be that they all know when the moratorium is going to be lifted and
what that you may have before I don't think you'll see us
a lot of Yeah well no really quickly Yeah. I do remember we had
something a couple months ago and
a citizen during the service and during the public hearing one of the systems made
a comment about. You know these popping up all over the place and. A little concern
about that so I think once we do get this ironed out. You need to be interesting to
see how much public input comes out of the I mean I hope if there's concern that
the public will come in and as a as a tax amendment you know we'll do
a notice in the newspaper but there's not really. You know we don't notify enjoy
robbery Eleanor's in this case because it's because there isn't
a proper need yeah there isn't so. You know so getting the word out is going to be
you know about as much as you folks talking to your neighbors and letting people
know that we're discussing it again and people following the agendas and the
notices in the newspaper are. Hopefully it's not the kind of
a situation where we don't get any public input Intel it's on
a council agenda and you know. So it would be better if you think there are people
out there that have concerns about this that we try to get people encouraged to
come in and participate so that we make sure we hit the items that are important to
the community so anybody out there listening. If you check this out on You Tube.
So I think unless there is out there I mean I'm hearing that the. Limitations in
the central business district just to not include it either as a permitted or
a special use is what I'm hearing. Will define it and come up with some things I've
got some notes about some some information you'd like to see. Whether Sycamore
Rochelle or Mabel park or other local communities are implementing. Any
restrictions in the area and then we'll also take
a look at some of the restriction languages and what. What nonconforming uses that
might create if we implement those and then we'll we'll come back with
a proposal in terms of
a separation whether it's by building or distance and let you react to that let the
public react to that and see if we're hitting the mark and we can adjust you know
it's will come to you as
a draft and if we get you know analysis or significant comments from the public
that we need to do more research or just
a number based on some testimony that's provided we can always do that.
OK thank you for the opportunity to have this discussion tonight I appreciate it
a lot of information is
a lot of interest. But it's been good information to so thank. You
I don't see any considerations on here are reports or items for next meeting do you
have anything or not a date for you would want to mention we do have
a lot of pending applications we haven't said hearings yet but I wanted to ask the
Commission in terms of March. You actually have three scheduled meetings in March.
But. Wednesday March twenty second are schedule meetings for March are March first
which is the first Wednesday. March fifteenth to March twenty ninth.
We're looking to are asking the commission. If that's possible if you could meet on
Wednesday March twenty second also in addition to those others yes Febreze sorry
so right now we have the meetings in March and meeting sorry meanings of February
or February fifteenth because the only one in February OK that's currently
scheduled Yeah we're looking sorry for. The veil believe the commission for
Wednesday February twenty second. So we haven't set any hearings yet but it looks
like we may need another meeting that month so why not let's go now or take
a look. You know if you need to let us know next few days if that's open or not or
if there's an issue if not we'll look to maybe schedule something I'm sure you're
definitely open OK You mentioned March fifteenth as well so correct that's
a regular schedule meeting yes I tentatively will not be available but I can
confirm as that they'd gets closer you know right
you know this is the rest of you can take
a look at your schedules and let us know of any regularly scheduled date or that
additional Feb twenty second date because we do have all of these are kind of
almost at some stage and if we try to put them on one agenda you guys would be here
. Trying to spread them out a little bit and make it
a little bit more manageable. So we'll let you know as soon as we can and we do
have our next scheduled meeting is the twenty fifth of January correct yes because
we do have something on the docket Yes we have
a public hearing on Sonic restaurant lets them get away
all right so if we don't have anything else I'd be happy to take
a motion for adjournment so moved so moved by on your second second I cast your one
right on piracy act I'll post a I'm sorry we're joined thank you thank you. Yes.